In reaction of the terrible events of September 11, 2001, I posted these remarks on Slashdot.org
As a first time poster, I was very happy with the marks they recieved, and the discussion they prompted.
I am also very proud of my Swedish heritiage, albeit many generations removed from Sweden.

The World is Going to Change (Score:3, Insightful)
by DumbSwede (slashdotbin@hotmail.com) on Wednesday September 12, @07:22PM (#2289356)
(User #521261 Info)
The World is going to change.

In light of the horrific events of September 11, 2001, the World has to change, and it falls to the United States to be the instrument of that change.

With the fall of the Soviet Union, the most immediate and powerful threat to western interests and ideals, America had expected the world to become a safer and saner place. This regrettably is not the case. The irrational acts of fanatical, misguided, and just plain evil men, show that we cannot just leave the world to sort out its problems for itself. I had once been one to criticize the U.S. in the past for its tendency toward unilateral action on the world stage, but it now seems the world stage is a farce and a facade. The U.N. has been hijacked by angry, petty nations who are too myopic to see all their fundamental problems stem from denial of basic freedoms to their people. Name one truly democratic nation with a free press that feels oppressed by the other democratic nations of the world. I surely can't. The oppression perceived by undemocratic nations and the people that live in them is an imaginary construct. The control of information within these societies in effect creates a brainwashed populace, all too eager to blame external forces for their plight, rather than place the blame where deserved, their own cynical, self serving leadership.

Does the United States or some other democratic nation ever exploit or take advantage of countries less blessed with wealth and freedom? Yes. Does this make democracy or freedom evil? No. Such exploitation would not occur if the nations that perceived this abuse were fair brokers themselves. If you want true free trade with the civilized world, this includes the free trade of information and ideas. Enough carping, complaining and finger pointing about injustices of the past. Look within the borders of those doing the finger pointing. How could you not recognize that half their population, the female half, are not just second class citizens, but slaves? Their legal justice systems a joke. Torture and murder common and condoned for ancient and petty reasons. Fanaticism exalted and idealized.

There is a politically correct notion that all cultures are unique, and therefor need to be preserved in present form. I say there are cultures that suffer a cancer of intolerance and oppression. It is not intolerance and oppression to excise these elements from nations, societies and cultures, that have demonstrated they cannot do so for themselves, and to place within these states, institutions to ensure the rights of their citizenry. Look to Japan if you think this cannot be done.

America has again and again expressed exasperation at the lack of restraint other countries have exercised in dealing with external and terrorist threats. Our own restraint has bought us nothing. Certainly not the respect of those who see our restraint as weakness.

While our actions must be just, they must also to an extent be preemptive. Criminal and terrorist elements must not be allowed to consolidate power, wealth and influence. Once we have dispatched those who have quickly brought us harm, we must turn our eyes to those that slowly suck the soul of our nation, and corrupt the nations they operate from. I speak of course of the drug trade. Whether you favor the decriminalization of drugs or not, there is no reason to allow those who break our laws and violate our borders to evade consequences, while we at the same time incarcerate our own citizens who are in effect their victims. This network of crime, corruption and influence no doubt further diminishes our stature in the eyes of those that would do us harm, and emboldens them by our inability to deal certain justice to this undeniably evil and strictly self serving cabal of dealers in human misery.

As Pearl Harbor was a call to action in 1941, the current action of these terrorists is the same. To those that say these circumstances are different, the world more complex, the evil more hidden, I say do not look for shades of gray where there are none. While we may not know for certain all individuals involved, and the exact involvement of each individual, we know, or will know shortly with great certainty, the major players involved. And unlike their operatives who lash out at total innocents, we can and should surgically remove them like the cancer they are.

Unlike the `50s, `60s and `70s super powers' brinkmanship, there remains no reason to support the regimes of nations that fall short of realizing democratic ideals. Notice should be served to one and all, friend and foe, that only those nations who struggle to advance the freedoms and well being of their populations will be considered allies.

If America has fallen short in any of its ideals, now is a time to recapture their true essence: the responsible, fair and just wielding of power and influence to improve the condition of humanity as a whole. Implicit in this, the assumption that the condition of humanity is diminished by allowing evil, wherever it is, to flourish.

To those that hate America, I say you engage in a form of self hatred, as America is a mirror of the world. Its diverse citizenry, all of whom have a democratic say in its actions, include those who share your race, your religion, your culture. America will include their outrage, their sense of betrayal, in its retaliation for transgressions transcendent.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Moderation Totals: Insightful=4, Overrated=2, Total=6.
Re:The World is going to change (Score:1)
by sphere (rt_unspam@clark.net) on Wednesday September 12, @08:19PM (#2289649)
(User #27305 Info)
If you are saying that unilateral and overwhelming US military action is going to stop these terrorists, I'd say you're wrong.

The type of terrorism that we face is a global ecosystem, not a country. Try to stomp on them and the organization will break apart, fade, and reappear with greater force as hordes of disgruntled locals--who naturally don't appreciate overwhelming US force in their country--rally to their cause.

I agree that military force is needed but we will have to learn how to track and kill terrorist organizations subtly, silently, and with a minimum of fuss. Perhaps such a network could be fought by combining superior tactics, a horde of newly trained infiltration-oriented antiterrorist units (in the tradition of the Rangers, Green Berets, and the SEALs), and top-notch human and electronic intelligence.

But will we actually fight terrorism? Or will we instinctively stomp on anyone who looks like a terrorist and create a whole new generation of fanatical terrorists who resent US even more and are willing to cause even more damage?

We will see.

yrs,

sphere
--
"Deep in the ocean are treasures beyond compare,
but if you seek safety, it is on the shore."
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:The World is going to change (Score:1)
by nfras on Wednesday September 12, @10:56PM (#2290259)
(User #313241 Info)
Whose ideals do you base this on? The US President? The US Congress? The US Senate? The US people, have a referendum? The people of the UK? The peoples of the security council? The people of France? What you are proposing that the US impose its ideals on the world and that anyone who fails to agree with or meet those ideals should be cast aside.

What would you do with countries like Russia, who because of the Cold War are now run by gangsters? The Russian government is trying to rid itself of the corruption of the Russian Mafia but because of the power that money wields, are unable to.
What about the Sultan of Brunei? He gives his people free educatio, free health care, no taxes but he is not democratically elected? The American presidential election was decided not by the will of the people, or even by its representatives, but by judges. Do you fail your own criteria?


What of the drug trade? The majority of drug traders in South East Asia were encouraged by the CIA as they opposed the Communists in the 60s and 70s. The same can be said of the South American trade.


To say that Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East is bullshit. This is a nation which practices extra judicial killings as a policy. It is persecuting a poor and displaced people and would happily make war on all of their neighbours.


To appoint the worldwide benchmark would indeed be a sad day for all.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Free press (Score:1)
by iamr00t on Wednesday September 12, @11:36PM (#2290411)
(User #453048 Info)
I want to point out that example of Free press.
That's not exactly true.
Countries with established free press - yes. But during the last 10-15 years many countries just started developing that. And what I see (using Russia as example) is that many people, especialy over 50, tend to keep their minds shut. They can not apprehend what "free" is. And no matter how much money and effort you spend telling them what it is, they will still believe everything they see in newpapers and TV ("But TV just said that!") and still will blame everything on somebody else they were taught to blame at.
And it's even worse when many meople can not quite educated in politics/economics. In russia that resulted in very unfair business development and pretty sad elections results.

Now, take all that to the extreme of some thirld-world countries.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Free press by DumbSwede (Score:1) Thursday September 13, @12:44AM
Re:The World is going to change (Score:1)
by kabloie (kabloie@thisisthenospampart.yahoo.com) on Thursday September 13, @12:04AM (#2290499)
(User #4638 Info)
I was going along reading this, thinking you were making some good points. But, why on Earth do you think we need to switch back to the "War" on unnamed "Drugs" ASAP?!

Whether u favor the decriminalization of drugs or not ...

Well if drugs are decriminalized, I certainly expect a drug trade to exist, except in a less bestial manner. I don't expect we will have to bomb sovereign states if 3 junkies OD off some bad heroin. And you guys who put all drugs in the same basket need to lighten the hell up.

kabloie

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:The World is going to change (Score:2)
by kstumpf (ken@(nospam)stumpf.com) on Thursday September 13, @02:20AM (#2290814)
(User #218897 Info)
I entirely agree. We need to do something proactive, and fast. Count how many times in our past encounters with terrorists and affiliated states that we've actually "finished the job". These acts demand consequence.

To those claiming you can't defeat terrorist groups, I say bullshit. As we've heard again and again, terrorist attacks such as yesterday's happenings took significant money and planning. Eliminate the people and resources at behind these activities and anyone giving them any form of aid. If a country harbors a known terrorist, then they are also an enemy of the free world, and should be attacked.

You think retaliation is not in order? Then you make me sick, and I think you take alot of things for granted. Fighting does not make us terrorists. America was founded by fighters, and we have every right to defend our interests at any cost. Bomb the hell out of these people, whomever they are. If you don't like that, then maybe you need to spend some time in one of these countries instead of sitting on your queen-sized bed eating doritos and preaching pacificism on an internet forum.

Go ahead and mark this as flamebait, its just karma.

----------------------

It is fun to have fun.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:The World is going to change (Score:1)
by lisp-hacker on Thursday September 13, @03:44AM (#2290961)
(User #460029 Info)
Sorry to post unpopular stuff:

I never commit violence in any form, so this terror shocked me too and made me sad.

But it is the bill for decades of american foreign politics! No doubt about that.
I know the story at least since the Shah in Iran . There was again and again an installment of
some leaders and the feeding of wars in that region by the US. There were open war attacks "in the name of Freedom". And a lot of moslems are just pissed now. And some of them meet now and fight in this sense.

Your opinion here was once again the missionairing of "freedom in the western sense".
But these people there have a culture and religion where this kind of freedom is worthless!
And no one will be able to change that. And the opinion that this culture is worthless because they are just all oppressed is just bullshit. They don't think so. They are different.


And for the case of revenge 2 points:


  1. Remember the beginning of WW 1 and 2 and think about the yesterday NATO Meeting. A lot
    of europeans were completely against Gulf War, but were not asked. Now they should march with you? For me: No way.

  2. Nobody learned about Vietnam, Afghanistan etc. You can not kill a country. And for one bomb into a moslem village you have a hundred of personally motivated "freedom fighters" or "terrorists", spreading to the west, making fire. You don't need much money and stuff to make a suicide attack in a train or so. Look to Israel.



Don't try to make war, try to make good politics!
It is impossible to win this game with commiting once again just brute force. Even if this would be typical american.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:The World is going to change (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13, @04:07AM (#2290985)
Right,

I guess you voted for Bush ;)
There are actually free countries with free speech & press that feel oppression by other nations ( US ).

Isn't it weird that US is all free trade, except when the UK is more competitive in steel, so they issue legal barriers ?

Isn't it weird that US is all free trade, except when UK/France/Belgium sell bananas that are cheaper, so they issue legal barriers ?

Personally I don't care about bananas, but there are a few ten thousands of people working in the steel industry, and they are being screwed over.

Just mentioned this, so you know that the US tries to oppress everyone when they feel they need to.
( Dont worry, France tries to ban Californian wine ;) , we're just as bad )

Other oppressions; hmm, how about Kuwait (sp?), I personally didnt care, but this war was pushed upon us by .... the US.

Don't give me the crap of 'had to help ...' , bullshit, in Africa countries get invaded all the time ( EthopiaErithrea , Zaire ... ) but I didnt see any US/NATO soldiers there ! ( A little bird told me it's because they dont have petrol ;)

Now, I agree that a solution must be found, but dont mention bombing, that's not it.

You/we will just have to create SWAT teams with a license to kill that are strictly supervised and can operate on a global level.

My 2 cents.


[ Reply to This | Parent ]